I feel like something happened here in this thread between pages 3 and 5 but i got distracted twice by tube galore.
someone give me the skinny on this.
The skinny is somewhat hard to explain/describe easily via online forum.
It kind of goes like this- I presume my lack of a father figure in my life has made me prone to "following" literally any strong male type figures and basically trying to pattern my life after that person. For a while, anyway.
There was a calling within me to heal as I have been deeply hurt, that story I suppose coming sooner than later at this point. Essentially this gnawing digging feeling in my stomach has pushed me to great lengths to silence it. No amount of drugs or alcohol has ever silenced the need though, it's like I have a great bit whole in my heart and i just can't fill it.
I finally meet a buddy who gets me into christianity hardcore, but he did it in such a way...I can only describe it as "very christian" My buddy keep in mind is a great person, he is in many ways the badass american hero a lot of people dream about becoming someday. Lives a pious life, has two great kids, strong morals and ethics, never touched a drug in his life, never has an issue with any addictions, is in complete control with money. I mean it's hard to find a chink in his armour.
So I see how great he seems to be at life, and he holds christianity and his faith in God in the very highest regard. Having been to church numerous times in my life, I had never really gotten the whole thing. I WANTED to believe, I WANTED to feel something, and yet i never did. Here, I hoped, was the answer. I found a friend whose faith was and is rock solid. He believes in everything heart and soul.
Went to church with him a few times and definitely found a church I liked. Very laid back, no idolatry whatsoever (not a cross to be found in the place) it is, by and large, the "ideal" church based on Jesus teachings and what have you. So I was golden.
But not really. I basically went through the motions for I don't know how long, and at different points in time I would say the shit I went through mentally really put me into borderline psychosis. The world works THIS way yet in church everything goes THAT way and God will do various things if you just ask. So I asked. And never directly received anything to speak of, though at times things have happened that are hard to explain. It seems like my common sense told me "everything that's happened could go one way or the other, depending on a persons perspective. If you want to believe, there is some proof, if not, explain it with such and such."
Right so after a while I started asking some questions of my buddy, mostly about the Old Testament (this preceded Scuters intervention) and he never had a good answer to anything I asked. I mean the list is so long...I can't butcher this post any worse by going into 100 different "why" questions that christians can not answer and it's irrelevant anyway. Here is the bottom line- christians are sick and need to heal. That is why they go to church. If you aren't sick, you really have nothing to gain by going. Salvation? from what? What have you done? You seek to get into heaven? Who said you weren't? Wait wait, we are born into sin and destined to go to hell unless Jesus bathes us in salvation and grace or whatever, and for this reason He basically committed suicide. For us. To get into heaven....
I approached Scuter about the whole thing, and truth be told I think I did a reasonably good job considering I was basically only a half hearted christian and not at all familiar with my enemy. "Choose your enemy well" as the saying goes. I had no idea, but take nothing back, have no regrets. Via PM Scuter essentially pointed out a number of things, the most important was this-
WHY are you a christian? There is a reason for it. Find the reason.
Truth be told I couldn't. From my perspective at the time I truly believed I had a calling to find God and that's why I went to church. Over and over again, over the years all manor of different churches, never felt a thing. I walked in with a half empty heart, I left in the same manor. The part that I was missing all this time is this- churches do not exist to explain God or where we come from anymore, this ins't the stone ages. Churches exist so sick people can find relief from their pain, be it emotional physical spiritual etc. It's not terribly normal for a human being to fret about whether or not God is happy with them and whether or not they will get into heaven when they die. The ones who do are usually guilty of something.
Oh, I said it- the big hush hush about christians that I literally despise. Mostly because I was right there doing the same shit alongside them. Party by day, Jesus by night (well Sunday anyway) all is well because you're getting into heaven. Jesus instantly fogives ANYONE, for ANY reason, at ANY time, just ask the thief on the cross beside Him.
That was really a big problem for me. I am sitting here looking at pornography doing hard drugs and drinking, throwing my life away, and after going to church I am told "you're going to heaven, just believe."
I am sorry but it's very hard to agree in that spot. My life has been far from good great or even really forgiveable, it was very much hard to believe that I could do anything I wanted and Jesus was going to usher me into heaven.
My pastor of course would intelligently argue that a person is supposed to TRY their hardest NOT to sin, and Jesus will help out for the rest, but as I have personally witnessed right here on this forum, perspective is highly individual on such things. I might think doing some hard drugs because I have been depressed is forgivable, the next person might condemn me. So here we slide down the slippery slope of "what exactly is the criteria to get into heaven anyway?"
I don't know. It seems like no one really knows. You could argue Jesus will save all of His believers, I mean just look at the thief on the cross (hate to use examples twice) and all the scoundrels Jesus loved to associate with. YET, Jesus also says it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into heaven, and says "if thou can't not forsake all that thou hast, you can not be my disciple!" That is a nice open ended remark, isn't it? How deep are we going here? Starting with money, going to I dunno, free will or something, how MUCH are we to forsake to follow Jesus? Is it even POSSIBLE to forsake "ALL" that thou hast? What the fuck is this mindfuck bs???
The bible is literally teeming with it, the mindfuck kind of thing above. You can only get to heaven if you believe in stories that insult you, literally, and you can ONLY believe in this stuff heart and soul for one-single-reason.
YOU MUST BE SICK. That's it, there is the truth, in order to hear stories like those in the bible and find them believable heart and soul, a person *MUST* be sick in some way. Might be guilt, might be sorrow, might be bad upbringing producing a need to feel shame all the damned time. Or a person might just be a robot, just following his or her family around, perhaps a girl or something. Of course there are also those who EXPLOIT other humans with religion, and use it go get wealthy or find vulnerable children or whatever.
The scary part is that christianity teaches HORRIBLE morals and values, yet people flock to churches and try to cram the crap down their kids throats. "It's GOOD for kids, teaches them right from wrong, they won't steal or do anything bad"
WITH JESUS FORGIVING ALL FOR ALL SINS WHY THE FUCK WOULDN'T THEY???? AND WHAT PART OF INCEST RAPE AND VIOLENCE (as found throughout the old testament) SCREAMS BLUEPRINT FOR A HEALTHY LOVING ADULT TO YOU????
The truth is that NONE of what's being delivered matches the bill of sale. Christians believe they can do, more or less, whatever they want, be forgiven for it, and come monday back to the grind. Meanwhile they fool themselves into thinking no one reads the old testament, who the fuck cares, yet their very own CHILDREN most likely will do exactly that- read the old testament. That's a scary thought IMO, I certainly would NOT want my children reading that crap. Honestly, aside from Scuter I hardly know a person who has actually read it.
It's kind of tough to see all of this when on the "inside" though I (and most people Im sure) feel that something is wrong. Very wrong. Didn't know what it was, but it was always there. The answer was rather simple- I was going to church because my heart and soul needed to heal, and they weren't. I was in pain, and they church offers pain relief.. Or so they say...pain relief is another totally different pm/thread though.
Essentially the whole enigma of religion goes like this: (for our purposes here, and keep in mind this is an opinion I have formed, not stating anything as fact, and I reserve the right to change my opinion as I see fit) A long time ago people had no fucking idea where we came from, what was going on in the universe, no one knew what the fuck was going on really (things are different? chortle) so the church kind of springs up selling an idea of where we came from and what made us people find acceptable. The church is vibrant, needed, loved and revered.
Things change and humans develop science and rational logical thought and realize the stories about God aren't as needed anymore. We can explain a lot of things which seem to contradict what the bible said was true, and very quickly say "yeah, thanks but no thanks" to religion and priests and what have you. They are in danger of becoming obsolete. Backs to the wall though, they produced BIG TIME.
What follows is just the most amazing mind fuck I have EVER seen. It's literally perfect and based on evil so evil it looks and appears quite good, even as it's fucking people. You can see a person literally get mentally fucked up and yet, because what's being done is "good" or "christian", hey it must be the person's fault! They must be a sinner!
Let's look at a quick example of how things have changed for me which may elucidate (a tiny bit) the shift in thinking process I have seen.
While riding light rail yesterday and older asian gentleman gets on the train. He walks over to where I am sitting, which is right in front of the bike racks, and looks to need to get his bike up (I'd say the bike was easily twice the size of this guy, it was comical)
Now, being a foot or two taller and 100+ lbs heavier, of course it's my place in the world to lug stuff around for people, so what do I do?
About oh say a month ago and on down the past who knows how long, I would jump up and say "oh let me help you!" because I was so polite, so nice, so "christian".
Let's decipher what I'm saying real quick "Hello, you seem old and frail. I have noticed this, and would like to draw your attention to that fact and rob you of your dignity. You aren't capable of lifting this bike on your own, didn't you know? Quit being old and weak and get the fuck out of the way" he would have humored me with a smile and I would feel awkward, as I have for years. Scuter would have chastised me by saying the damned fucking truth "HE DIDN'T ASK YOU MORON, OFFER HELP WHEN IT'S ASKED FOR AND NEVER BEFORE"
THAT was a very hard and eye opening lesson for me as it's bleeds into so many things...So what did I do? I looked at the man and smiled, he looked at me, kind of messed with his bike and asked me quietly if I would please help him out. Took me 3 seconds if that and he gave me a very warm smile and a thank you and went to sit down, dignity and self respect intact. I helped him get his bike back down, he went on his way and was quite happy.
BUT do you see what happened right there? It's insideous, this christian "giving" thing that they do. They give give give when they were never asked in the first damned place and it's a sickness designed to bring more into the flock. My story is a prime example of this- one day my friend gave me a bible, a really nice one, then over time it was a car backpack toothbrushes toothpaste you name it. The awkwardness could never be described fully, and it's just sick because we are taught that it is RUDE to say no when a person is trying to give you something. Ironically enough, who told that person it's ok to give without being asked in the first place??? I NEVER would have asked for that damn car, never! But I also was unable to turn it down...and my mother (and a few people online) told me stay the fuck away, do not drive that fucking thing, it's evil- right from day one, it literally was, and that car that fucking white devil LITERALLY destroyed my life. It broke down on me and I just fell apart. The thought of my buddy coming back to see his car all messed up and not running just destroyed me. I've never told him actually, don't care to, my parents saw the wreckage though. I just couldn't deal with all this "giving", like "gosh, I don't know what to say! I mean, I can't say no!" this turns to "I am not worthy, NOT worthy of this gift, WOW I mean, this is more a friend than I can ever deserve. I don't deserve this, how I can ever repay-I can't. I literally could never repay this debt, wow"
Months and months I spent in isolation hearing those words over and over again, and hey by the way, did anyone catch that last part? A "debt one can never repay" hmm I swear I have heard that before......ah yes, I am getting sidetracked...
Back to the church losing influence- they invented Jesus. Just so perfect....people read the old testament, see naughty things, feel guilty because they like naughty things, invent Jesus for them to cry to and seek forgiveness from. Literally, that's it. And if the person isn't already trapped by guilt from liking naughty things, let's lay this on nice and thick here- GOD DIED FOR YOU.
huh? GOD DIED HE SENT HIS ONLY SON (who is also Him) TO EARTH TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS!!!!
How could God kill Himself? This happened so people could sin and still get into heaven? Wait wait- this sounds like something I have heard before....Oh yeah, Jesus died on the cross to save His believers, this produces "OH MY GOSH, I LOVE YOU JESUS! OH, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT, I *AM NOT WORTHY* I AM NOT WORTHY!!!" and there lies the fucking guilt, the shame. It was coming one way or another BOOM headshot. Religion is a fucking headshot right to the dome of humanity.
Like naughty stuff? You need forgiveness!
Living a perfect life? GOD DIED FOR YOU! You need forgiveness!
GUILT GUILT GUILT SHAME SHAME SHAME
Oh and don't forget to forcibly give give give to others, make sure you spread the fun.
That is maybe 15% of what I came to realize when I allowed myself to actually think for once. I mean, it's VERY hard to see these things, and mostly because I dare any christian to really attempt honest introspection as to the WHY that person is going. It's very hard to do. When I pushed myself, it took a while to understand I was not randomly going to church, there was a very specific reason- I was sick. Well I am, scuter doesn't do end games well, he can find the problem or root cause of something to a level I've never seen before, but that's more or less it. How to deal with personal problems I am still trying to figure out....
I do not even want to get started on the sickening violence and abuse in the bible, the way it demeans women, how it's insulting to anyone with a sliver of intelligence (shit God BERATES adam for eating of the tree of knowledge! ugh...) it's literally intended to make a person sick and needing to heal. IT MAKES YOU SICK FOR FUCKS SAKE. DON'T BELIEVE ME TRY READING THE BLASTED THING.
I don't know what to say right now, and thankfully I don't have to say anything. Just look at the truth, if you dare. It's literally staring the world in the face, taunting everyone, saying "fuck with me I dare ya"
There is going to come a time in the near future when I will take the hard questions to much more "hard line" christians than I was, people like my pastor and my friend, and see how they answer them. I'd say there is a good chance there will be some compelling arguments as I never befriend stupid people. More to come, for the time being just suffice to say Scuter is on another level entirely, above people who are already on another level. What he shows is a very scary truth NO ONE dares talk about- anyone who reads the bible should literally flee from it, but then there's the issue of how it's corrupting children all around the world, how it's forcibly given to people, spreading the sickness of shame and guilt. It's a mistake to believe the question of do you believe or not is the only one worth asking, as if a simple yes or no will do, thanks.
Someone is going to have to answer for all that corruption someday, that's a fact.
Also it's worth mentioning I only came to these realizations when I was willing to try to figure this all out FOR ME, not for Scuter and not for the forum or the argument or whatever. Introspection can only be done by the person seeking it, and for that reason must remain pure in a sense. Ask yourself the tough questions for YOU and no one else, and see what happens. ..
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